vaultofthearchonfandomcom-20200214-history
135280-if-developers-were-paid-via-commission-instead-of-salary-would-this-happen
Content ---- ---- No. Because you know what happens when you give people that stress on top of their jobs? Anxiety. They make more mistakes. People burn out even faster. The fear of losing everything might seem like a motivator, but it does not help productivity when that is the main thing on your mind. And as noted previously, no matter how much effort you put in. Shit will always happen. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Quoted for truth. Nothing is EVER bug free. | |} ---- I understand that but if you knew you wouldn't be able to feed your family, pay your electric bill, or do anything - really, would you not put more effort in? | |} ---- ---- The fact that you think the developers haven't put any effort in only shows how incredibly ignorant you are with regards to programming. With an application as complex as an MMO, it is impossible to release any update without bugs. You children complained for a year about content, but whenever they release content, you pitch a tantrum about it not being perfect. Guess what, code has bugs. All of it. In every application. Everywhere. So developers have two choices, never release content until all the bugs are found (and thus, never release content,) or release content with as much testing as possible and hope that any bugs encountered have a minimal affect on the application. | |} ---- This made me lol. | |} ---- Most developers are putting maximum effort into their work already because not doing so hurts your rep, your employment, and your pride. | |} ---- It would still happen. All developers are used to one fact, even though we all hate it: With every little thing we fix, we break something else. | |} ---- ---- I'd probably just find a different job at that point. I dont know why you think that they're putting in less effort because they know they'll still get paid. | |} ---- You really have no idea what it takes to be a software developer, do you? | |} ---- ---- Here's my argument. History repeats its self, hundreds-if-not-thousands of MMOs have released. Have we not learned from the mistakes of others? It's like being a military commander and repeating the mistakes at the Battle of Cannae over and over again. | |} ---- Most nations militaries put stress on their soldiers to complete a task constantly. It seems to be working? Also, didn't Pavlov teach us that Operant Conditioning is superior? | |} ---- Let me put this in perspective for you: A man and a woman want to get a child. The woman gets pregnant, and they're extremely happy. The doctor says they're getting one child after the first echo. At this point you assume: Echo's have been done for years, this has to be the truth! Two months later, the doctor gives them news: You're getting twins! _____ Moral of the story? You can expect every little thing, and then still things can go the other way. Edited October 1, 2015 by Collussus | |} ---- Lemme ask you this, How come they havent come on here to any of these posts and given us an update? I know they are working on it but i think communication is crucial at this time if they want to save some customers. Im not going anywhere though, im just going to go BBQ some ribs and check back later :D | |} ---- Why would anyone in their right mind "decide" to release a buggy program? | |} ---- At what point over the past 16 months does Carbine start to own their mistakes? It can't all be because of NCSoft. For instance, the game was actually in a good playable state until somebody decided that F2P needed to coincide with CHANGE ALL THE THINGS OH GOD BUGS EVERYTHING BORK | |} ---- I don't think you understand software in the slighest. NOTHING you make, will EVER be bug-free. | |} ---- I feel like that's wrong. Maybe programmers are just getting rubber stamped in online classes now-a-days and thats why we have all of this regression with products? | |} ---- That's not wrong. Nothing ever released by a human being will ever be perfect. Until machine learning is at the point where an AI could rewrite it's own code, you will never get to the holy grail of perfect software. | |} ---- How come I've experienced MMO launches that weren't like this? | |} ---- ---- Yeah. | |} ---- You're saying you've experienced an mmo launch where ALL interested players were able to play, starting at day 1? There were no login issues, not strictly related to their servers, but also related to other factors? There were no videocards saying "screw you" when starting the game? There were no crashes, EVER, because of a silly thing that they didn't expect? There were no fps issues, with pc's that could technically handle it? There were 0 issues, whatsoever, and nobody was posting in their technical help channels to get things working? | |} ---- I want proof of this. Including their launch date, so i can verify no threads were posted on their forum during launch in the technical section. | |} ---- 1: This isn't a launch. Game's been out since the end of May 2014. 2: There was another MMO that just launched a big expansion two weeks ago that didn't have insane server issues OR screw over their existing player base. It does happen. | |} ---- You seem to be entirely missing what this thread is about, and what he's been claiming. | |} ---- This isn't a launch though. Wouldn't matter. This is a year+ into its life. | |} ---- List what I've claimed. | |} ---- Right, so because you can't get proof, you use that as an excuse. Gotcha. Moving along. | |} ---- You must be new... Or slow. | |} ---- I can I just don't answer to you. You can google it. | |} ---- You must be mad. | |} ---- Literally, game just dropped a huge xpac weeks ago without these issues. That's the proof. And this still isn't a launch, so comparing these issues to launch problems is comparing apples to oranges. | |} ---- Turned it off a minute and a half in. Their test was a load of hooey. Skill based challenges performed by non-professionals. | |} ---- Here you go, since you refused to read up. | |} ---- That first post you quoted wasn't even mine. Why are you setting me up? | |} ---- I read it, but it still isn't a launch. So enjoy proving that no MMO launches without problems, which is irrelevant to where we are today. Although I assume you were banking on proving that entirely separate issue false and then claiming that it somehow applies to the situation that Carbine is currently in. | |} ---- Of course! I am 100% certain the developers are crushed at this disaster... as a company, Carbine needs F2P to be a smashing success and nobody wants a mess like what is going on. The real blame I'd probably levy higher up the chain - in preparation for F2P, they should have made completely new F2P realms - multiple - to handle the large initial infux; after the dust settles, ways people can move around or join realms or whatever can be done to manage the population disparity. But on initial load, it was very silly to have only 2 realms... they got smashed under the load and trying to fix them has continued to fail. It is akin to trying to smashing 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag... it's just not going to work. | |} ---- My god. You must have failed basic reading class. I was replying to his original statement, i was NOT conveying the message like it pertains to wildstar whatsoever. You're turning it into that, nobody else. | |} ---- Then why are you so hell bent on proving it false? Congratulations, launches don't happen perfectly, you win the Internets. Doesn't do a thing to change the fact that this is a content drop for a game that's been live since the end of May 2014. | |} ---- No, it wouldn't occur, because you wouldn't have a development team any more. The developers have no control on the amount of servers that are deployed and how they are managed. It's probably done and decided by ncsoft. | |} ---- You still fail to grasp this thread. This thread was a question to whether commission based payments would've changed anything. The thread later got to this point. I was replying to it from a developers point of view. How is that so hard to understand? | |} ---- ---- ---- Stop telling me what I do or do not grasp. That isn't an argument. | |} ---- Gotcha, still ignoring the rest that i write. | |} ---- You want the real, actual; blunt truth? Nobody at carbine or NCSoft gives a single *cupcake*that some self entitled players have a hard time connecting to their game for the first few days. That's the most first world problem of first world problems. And once the issues are solved, everyone will forget about them, even on this forum. Edited October 1, 2015 by Eleris | |} ---- Feel free to go into every thread on the forums and tell the people not responding to the OP what they don't get. Actually it does make a difference, because the fact that it isn't a launch implies that there already was a launch. It so happens that during the launch of this game, they experienced very similar problems due to population. Because they experienced those problems already, they should know how to prevent them in the future. That's basic problem solving - find out the underlying cause to prevent a reoccurrence of the problem. It's also relevant because many times over the past 6 months or so (while the game was still live), they experienced lag issues like what they are experiencing now due to many players in one area. Again, that gave them an opportunity to do a root cause analysis and discover the preventative actions that could alleviate the issue. | |} ---- Funny that you think they aren't. Google 'game development and Metacritic' and look at some of the news articles a few results down from the top. Many publisher contracts with studios are dependent on sales and/or a good review score, and a lot of smaller studios can get destroyed by one bad game. | |} ---- ---- If you think any of this has to do with a lack of effort than you really don't understand how this stuff works. There's a good reason this happens for literally every major launch of an online game with a huge influx of players. It's simply a matter of infrastructure and the current limitations of server architecture and hardware. Add to that the fact that you will NEVER catch every bug. Most people don't have the slightest idea how difficult making a game is, or even programming in general. You could do nothing but change a word on the title screen and have that somehow break a major, entirely unrelated part of the game. Edited October 1, 2015 by UnityGN | |} ---- I'm sorry, but have you ever tried computer programming? | |} ---- ---- You are remedial. | |} ---- This is a launch. Its a F2P launch. There are 1000s of players trying to play , just like a launch. You cannot compare this with any type of expac release other than WoWs probably. | |} ---- ---- ---- Top developers know that ensuring their staff has a comfortable paycheck with all of their needs met gives them the mental and emotional breathing room to be creative and efficient. Ideally, I think the publishers should get their dicks out of the gears, because every time a game crashes and burns, I tend to find a greedy, ambitionless, or out-of-touch publisher manning the flak cannon. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Not Cannae, I was thinking Arausio, where nearly 80000 romans were wiped out because two generals couldn't agree. Basically what we have here is probably the PR people saying to the Hardware techs prelaunch "We are going to need new hardware to cope with the people and we should put it online while we have the servers down for f2p" and the tech geeks going "no way, it will be fine, just give it some time to settle down." Then when the tech geeks were proved wrong they dug their heels in for 2 days until they finally admitted defeat and agreed they needed new servers. | |} ---- ---- Can confirm. Publishers only care about the bottom line, i.e. money. They might swear to you that they care about the game, and it may even be true, but it's only because they want it to make them money. There are a few out there who do it right, though. Paradox being one of them. | |} ---- Well, then it's on you that you choose to remain in ignorance. Thought workers do not improve their performance when incentives are increased. You can pretend this isn't the case, but it's the way the real world works. Edited October 2, 2015 by SlyJeff | |} ---- ---- Microsoft SQL | |} ---- oO | |} ---- What if all you freeloaders suscribed when the game launched a year and a half ago : Do you think things like F2P would have occured ? | |} ---- Hey Hey Hey.... Stop using common sense on these boards! | |} ---- Yeah! The only common thing about the sense on these forums is the lack of it. *I don't even know what this means* Edited October 2, 2015 by UnityGN | |} ---- Awesome. I use sql also. Love it! Glad you guys don't use oracle lol | |} ---- ---- Things like server architecture are proprietary information and closely guarded. If a company can fit more people on the same hardware then that offers a competitive advantage in this market, why would they go and ruin that? During the launch, they experienced a DDOS and were using a different server architecture. Right now, they are finding that there is a bottleneck in their server architecture, the architecture that they implemented a few months after launch, and that doesn't present a problem without an unprecedented, for WIldstar at least, level of concurrency. Very few lessons learned during launch would apply here. | |} ---- You are assuming they had put no effort in it already. | |} ---- ---- It's not that rare, unfortunately. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect | |} ---- ---- ----